It's a Catch-22.

[reynardo]

It's easy enough if you'd like someone to do something to, for instance, help around the house. "Hey, next time you're passing the kitchen, could you take the bin out? Thanks." No hardship, straightforward, simple.

But if it's something you wish they'd do for you, but you wish they'd just do it and not have to be told, it's a lot harder. Like asking for compliments. You don't want to ask for a compliment, because then you're not just getting it spontaneously and you're only getting it because you asked, but you wish they'd ruddy well comment just once that you look nice in that low blue dress. I didn't get a baby shower for Adam, because I didn't want to ask for one - I thought that was something your friends were supposed to do for you, and none of them did. I wanted to be worth the surprise, not deliberately setting up somewhere where people gave me presents.

I've had also had guys years ago complain that they never know what to get me for Christmas and Birthdays, so I thought "Ok, so if I see something I like I'll mention it, then they can remember it for later". So I was out with the squeeze (about 10 years ago) and we saw Dungeon Keeper in the shop, and the concept intrigued me so I said something like "Now that's the sort of game I would enjoy playing". The guy I was with thought I was making heavy-handed hints about wanting it now, and got annoyed with me. And then completely forgot Valentine's day not long afterwards. Things didn't last much longer after that.

You can't win.

Comments

[nefaria.livejournal.com]

Guys are just stupid and narrow-minded, they'll make the bluntest conclusion from any suggestion because they don't think deep. Trust me, I know one pretty well.

[lirion.livejournal.com]

I don't have an answer, but I can say (very loudly too) "I hear you!". *hugs* Anything else I had to say would jsut be reiterating what you've already mentioned so I'll stop the blathering before it begins, but I feel it and it's frustrating and hurtful. made worse by people who say things along the lines of "Well why don't you just ask for what you want then?" *sigh*

[psychowoof.livejournal.com]

I wanted to be worth the surprise,

I think that captures it perfectly.

[frou-frou.livejournal.com]

I've given up on hoping that people will do certain things - mostly they'll act in character so it helps to know how that character behaves and what to expect from them. Then you don't get disappointed by the wrong expectations.

Also: when someone cares for you, they might show that love and kindness in different ways, not always the way we want them too. Person A might be into compliments (for example) and person B might offer to fix your car.

As far as baby showers and the like go: perhaps your friends are used to you being the one who organises things? Or maybe they were waiting for you to ask or drop a hint or something. I don't want to let them off the hook, but Assume Nothing! If you want something to happen, make it happen rather than hope that others will do the "right" thing.

[sandypawozbun.livejournal.com]

As far as baby showers and the like go: perhaps your friends are used to you being the one who organises things? Or maybe they were waiting for you to ask or drop a hint or something. I don't want to let them off the hook, but Assume Nothing! If you want something to happen, make it happen rather than hope that others will do the "right" thing.

This is pretty much the reason my Adelaide acquaintances gave for not throwning me a baby shower for either of the kids. And Rey's disappointment in not being given one herself contrasts bittersweetly against the surprise shower she threw me. *wansmile* One of the reasons I love her so much.

[reynardo.livejournal.com]

But again, hinting is cheating. Part of it is very much that I am the sort of person who does do the surprise gifts and the Valentine's cards (current record, one year sent out 35, received 1 - that was a *good* year), and who also does like all the sympish trappings ofsociety along those lines. That's why I love my beloved husband for his flower-giving habits. It's occasionally, as a surprise. Not for the special occasions or regularly so that I expect it, not just when he's feeling guilty. It's one of the many reasons I keep him :-)

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

When I worked in the Markets, occasionally I'd get myself flowers. 'Cos then I got flowers.

[frou-frou.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree: I don't like hinting either! I'm not trying to let them off the hook: I don't approve of their behaviour, just trying to suggest what might be going through their heads.

Also (have been thinking about this) some things just don't occur to some people. Eg: I've never been to a baby shower, and despite several very close friends having children, it's never occurred to me do organise such a thing. Now I'm wondering if any of my friends are miffed at my lack of good behaviour.

[michiexile]

And -this- is why I'm the romantic in my marriage. I -do- small surprises at odd intervals. Because that's one of the way I expect to show my affection.

And my wife. She ... well ... she knows she'd WANT to be able to think of these things, and occasionally she tries, but she simply doesn't have the eye for it. And just as you say, it takes the taste out of it to get her to do things for me.

We've had arguments about it. She's trying. And I love her dearly for other reasons.

[lokicarbis.livejournal.com]

You can, it's just that, as you so rightly point out, you have to cheat. Which, yeah, kinda makes playing pointless.

And for what it's worth: this problem occurs in both directions across the gender divide.

[michiexile]

Me being a good example of The Other Direction.

[bunny-hugger.livejournal.com]

Good post. Yeah, predictably, reminds me of some moments in my last frustrating months with Lucky. For instance, last September I started wearing contact lenses for the first time. And I've always thought my eyes were my best feature. And I wanted Lucky to notice my eyes, so I resorted to this: I asked him what color he thought my eyes are. I've always described them as gray, you see, but sometimes I start to wonder if they're green, which is perhaps my favorite eye color. So I said, as I looked in the mirror by the front door, "Lucky, what color do you think my eyes are? They're starting to look greener to me." And I wanted him to come up to me and look right in them, really look at my eyes for the first time in ages. And I wanted him to tell me that they were beautiful -- I didn't really care what color he thought they were.

But, without looking, from across the room, he said, "I guess it depends on the light."

[sandypawozbun.livejournal.com]

This strikes a chord with me also. Consider: I had a hell day at work yesterday, out of the house for 12 hours, sitting in meetings, doing other people's work blah blah blah. I came home looking for some solicitous attention from my people.

Instead I had to pick up the clothes that had been blown around on the dirt and drag in the clothes that were still on the washing line because no one had thought to bring them in. When I rather snippily observed that someone could have brought in the clothes earlier in the day, before they got dirty, the response I got was Lazy Canon.

"But you didn't ask me to do it."

*frustrated wail*

So yes. I'm with you hon.

[fizit.livejournal.com]

You're wonderful and thoughtful and generuos, so I'm sure this rule doesn't actually apply to you...

I've found folks will read your expectations of their behaviour based on the way you treat them. I don't expect birthday pressies (as a very relivant example) cause I so rarely give them. close folks do have a tendancy to rush to my side with meals and outings though, as that's what I do in return.

[reynardo.livejournal.com]

Very relevant example. I don't expect birthday pressies, although I'll give them, but I do hope for an acknowledgement. A card, an e-card, even a "I don't do birthdays so this card turning up today is just a co-incidence" e-card is great - it shows you made the effort.

And if a person genuinely doesn't do that sort of thing, it's fine. It's when they also add "Oh, I don't do it at all. But I used to and here's a list of all the wonderful things I did for X and special surprises and lovely flowers ..." that they wonder why I get upset.

Don't laugh. It's happened twice in the last little while.

[emmasee100.livejournal.com]

R. complains bitterly that I'm hard to shop for. (Seriously, go to nearest yarn store, tell the lady "Hi, do you know emmasee100? What was she patting last time she was in and didn't buy?")

So, for three months before Christmas, I dropped hints "If you haven't purchased me anything, I would like x, y and z". Meanwhile, I had his gifts purchased and ready to go.

Mid-December, he wailed "I don't know what to get you." Which suggests to me that I talk for the exercise of flapping my jaw.

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

Me it's books. Take a look at what's on my shelves, and what's next to the bed. Find the latest by that author. Wrap. Or leave positioned on my pillow, that works too :P

Re: Compliments

[freyaw.livejournal.com]

I had to start asking Bastard for compliments. I had to start letting him know that when I'm parading in a new (to me) outfit, and I tell him it's new, that the least he can do is say that the colour is nice. It never occurred to him to do so otherwise, because he feels that people are too dependent on the approval of others, and so forth.

And after so many years of hearing only criticism from the people I care about, because the approval is assumed to be implicit in their statements, and, indeed, presence... Well, I acknowledge I need to hear that what I do is OK sometimes. Not all the time. But sometimes.

I've occasionally forgotten that I'm not talking to Bastard and reflexively asked "Say something nice!" or similar to other people, who tend to be considerably startled. Not offended, so much... But definitely startled. On one occasion the person in question was waiting until there were not quite so many people around to be verbally appreciative (bridgeplayers tend to take such expressions as indication of interest, the consequences of which can be wearing), but by the time that would have happened, it was quite easy to predict that I would be in a funk (very VERY easy to predict from the inside) from having made all that effort and three hours later no one had said anything. I wanted to stop that spiral before it manifested. Thus startlement.

Re: presents
I've never understood Bastard's family when it comes to presents. Shortly before Christmas, people will start casually telling Bastard that they want *THIS* for Christmas. Fine, it takes the pressure off of him. But I've already got stuff that I think they'll like, usually correctly, and suddenly they're not going to get it because they have to get what they asked for lest they be disappointed. My family likes surprising people, so while we have wishlists (which one puts a multitude of small-to-medium items on so that people have choice, and you don't know what they'll pick) other items are encouraged.

This year, I made a couple of offhand comments about iPods, how my dance teachers use them, and how (sometime in the vague and misty future) I might want to get one to do stuff with. Bastard was listening, the darling. I have a Shuffle, now, which I can plug into damn near everything (given the right adaptors). But he's never remembered Valentine's Day, aggressively so (people, can you please stop asking him what he's getting me for Valentine's Day? He won't EVER get me anything, and it's two days after his birthday). I know he won't remember, and yet I end up disappointed every time because there's always the slim hope that SOMEONE will (m'Dad is the same - every time I have got mother flowers for Valentine's Day and signed it as from Dad, she knew it was me, but we maintained the fiction, because it made her feel good).

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes "I never know what to get you" is a plea for help, and sometimes it is telling you that they don't intend to try. The tricky part is working out which it is.

I loathe Valentine's Day with a passion if it's a day that I am in the office.

I think not having male partners means my socialisation hasn't translated to expecting anything. So it's not for myself I feel sad, but for the girls who so clearly want something, and don't get it, and are surrounded by girls showing off what they do get. It's a status competition as much as anything else and when you combine that with pathetic chat from the males about "better do something or I'll be trouble" I wonder why people bother with each other at all.

I'd be charmed to get a Valentine's present, but would be horrified if it was a giant blow up teddy-bear delivered to the office (don't get any ideas you lot)

[reynardo.livejournal.com]

Oh. *takes giant inflatable teddy back to the shop and asks for a set of stainless steel bracers and a pink jewel encrusted dog collar*

[verylisa.livejournal.com]

Do you know of the five love languages concept?

I used to get grumpy with Mike because I expected Words of Affirmation and, to a lesser extent, Receiving Gifts. But then I realised that his main love language seems to be Acts of Service. Now I notice his Acts of Service more, and make more of an effort to communicate love through Acts of Service myself.

Just knowing about these languages helped me to be more accepting and happier with the different ways that the people I love choose to communicate their love to me.

(I haven't read the book, by the way. Just the summary of the five languages was enough for me to grok the concept, I think.)

[reynardo.livejournal.com]

shadow_5tails has a copy I must read, but yes, I read the first part and understood the basic concepts. I really must finish it, and will read that link as soon as we're back (heading to the coast for family holiday)

[wingedkami.livejournal.com]

I remember all too well my ex's inability to notice that the lounge needed tidying until after I'd tidied it. (But I'll spare you further rants on that subject.)

The baby shower one feels a bit odd to me, but that's because we don't really do baby showers in the UK. It's considered bad luck to celebrate the birth until you actually have the baby there in your arms. It also means that if the worst does happen, the mother doesn't end up with a lot of baby things as a horrible reminder.

I thoroughly approve of this, because everything I've heard about baby showers fills me with horror. I'll happily go along to a christening or similar event though, despite my dislike of babies.

[keffufal.livejournal.com]

One of the worst things about guys and not-cleaning is the Bathroom Basin. No matter how disgustingly grotty it gets, they don't even notice that it is dirty. I'm lucky cos my bf is pretty good (especially compared to me cos I never clean either!) and when his mum is coming over he'll actually clean the toilet and stuff! Though the other day he complained that he didn't like the type of toilet paper that I bought - so I told him that if he EVER bought the toilet paper himself then he can buy the kind that HE likes!
Also with buying presents, I am a bit notoriously difficult to buy for because no-one seems to grasp my style - these are the things that you would think long-term partners SHOULD be able to pick up on! Which things do I squee over? Now I pretty much tell him what to buy me which is nice cos I always get what I want - but I would also like some surprise gifts now and then!