It just happened. Honest.
Jan. 10th, 2004 06:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reynardoThe person who reads my journals who has known me the longest doesn't have his own journal, but he has known me now for 16 years and that's got to say something for our friendship. And it's his friendship along with others that really got me thinking the other day.
I seem to have somehow slipped into the position of "Wise Counsellor", or at least "Willing Listener", for many of my friends. I don't have a problem with this - I am glad they feel able to talk to me and bring their problems to someone for another perspective. I feel honoured that they trust me so much, and I do like helping people. And besides, they're friends, I love my friends, and if somehow I can make any hurting easier to bear, or even help untangle a web, then this is good.
But I wish I knew how I got to this point.
And from here I am going to refer to incidents that might sound familiar to some people. Be sure that a) I shall not divulge names except when that name is me and b) if you think I was talking about you and you're not sure, feel free to ask. I won't be offended.
In my younger days, I was silly. Very very silly. A lot of it had to do with lousy self-respect, and taking note of a lot of wrong ideas and concepts courtesy of the strangeness that was the late 1970s. I thought I had to sleep with a guy if I liked him, I thought to sleep with a guy was a way to get what I wanted (including keeping him), and I thought a lot of those movies and shows where the guy or girl keeps persisting until the other party finally gives in then realises how wonderful they are were realistic. I also knew I wasn't a Brooke Shields or Olivia Newton-John, and therefore thought I was ugly.
So if I liked a guy I'd ...well, I'd pretty much stalk him. Odd phone calls. Drive-pasts at odd hours (just driving past, nothing more). Yes, at least one and maybe two people reading this journal have been subjected to this. I am really sorry now, guys. If I was going out with someone I'd let them treat me like garbage, but at the same time I'd have 2 or 3 others I was juggling to make sure I always had at least one. It was very very rare for me to drop a guy - I'd do anything to keep them. And not being able to take hints, I'd therefore force the guys to drop me in rather harsh ways, because they'd have to be blunt and they'd hate doing that so they'd leave it until things had gotten really bad. I wouldn't ask a guy whom I was dating for the things I liked because I was trying too hard to please him, and I was usually too scared to ask for something I liked in case it freaked him out or annoyed him.
I must admit here that some of that comes from the first boyfriend I had who would insist on doing his things, sulk if I wanted to do mine (visit my friends, see a movie I liked), and when he swore he'd change he didn't (of course). And of course I took it, for quite a while, until I found that the easiest way to dump him was to go out with someone else.
And then some years later I went out with a guy who had absolutely no idea of other people's emotions, preferences or wants. If we saw a play that I didn't like, he couldn't accept that anyone might not enjoy it. If I wanted to visit an old friend he would insist on coming along, then sit there and be miserable because we wanted to talk about old times. When another (female) friend and I wanted to go see amovie we knew her boyfriend and mine wouldn't enjoy, and told the guys this, they snuck after us, came into the movie and then spoilt it for us by being miserable all the way through. And when we broke up (for once I broke things off because I realised we were wrong together, and did it by talking to him and explaining things), he wouldn't accept that, and kept ringing and calling around and trying to do things to get me back.
And that more than anything made me realise how much I must have really bugged people when I did those things.
Also, when I broke with him, I realised it was the first time I was a single woman for about 8 years. I could see the movie I wanted without having to ask anyone else. I could go to a party and talk to anyone I wanted. I could have friends I went out with without it being a relationship.
And so began the time when I was able to put myself in the other person's shoes. It was also the time I realised I was past "playing games" to get someone's attention, and that straight-talking was a good thing. It was when I realised that telling someone who was bugging me "look, I don't like that" was the best way, because then they couldn't say I hadn't told them.
Some time after, when I went through post-natal depression, I was lucky enough to have an excellent counsellor who also taught me a lot of things, like withdrawing and regrouping is a reasonable response, and that all the things I did in my youth are part of who I am and that I have to accept them (and I do now).
I mentioned at the time that I couldn't be a counsellor myself, because I tend to internalise other people's troubles too much and to take them as my own troubles. She explained that it took time and training to learn to listen to other people's troubles objectively, and that of course it's harder when those people are your friends, too.
Later again, I went to training to be a carer for people with AIDS. Several things in that training impressed me. The biggest one, and the one I have taken with me, is that you cannot care for anyone else if you are not caring for yourself. It is fine to say "I can't do this"; it isn't ok to say "yes" and then not deliver. And if you need a break for yourself, then take it. Step back. Regroup. Reassess.
They also didn't try and rope you in for more help as soon as you said "yes" to one thing. I have been involved in so many groups that as soon as you agree to write letters, they want you to fundraise, or run meetings, or ... you know the type. This lot didn't (even people wanting to do more than 1 4-hour shift were only allowed a maximum of four a week). This has helped me to say "no" to others from now on.
In one session, one of the guys doing training left the room for a bit. I passes him outside when I was going to the loo, and asked if he needed help, and he declined. I can only say that somehow something had finally sunk in, as I said "ok" and walked on, realising that he wasn't pushing me away personally, he just needed space. About 10 minutes later our trainer (a lovely guy) said to the rest of us "I'd just like to acknowledge that Rob isn't in the room", and I realised that that was all that was needed. I'd never seen or heard that before - and it was the perfect point between ignoring the missing person, pretending all was well, and making a fuss about them being gone.
Lastly, at one point in the training the trainer explained that he wasn't trying to get us to "get rid of our own burdens", our hang-ups and guilts and problems. He was merely teaching us to carry our emotional baggage a bit easier, to shift it, as it were, from being a pair of suitcases to a backpack. Shifting it thusly leaves our hands free to help others.
So the last few years, I have somehow graduated to being a helper, a counsellor, a dispenser of advice and a willing listener-to-ideas for other people. I will say "yes" if I can, and "no" if I mean it. I have learned that very often just letting someone else talk about their problem makes them come up with their own solution.
More importantly, I have learnt that my job isn't to fix their problems. I might thrown back ideas and things, but quite often all they need is for me to throw back what I think they're saying, and to listen. Really listen. Sometimes they need to be told that it's OK to rant, be angry, to be unhappy, to be annoyed at someone or something.
I wish I'd known that myself when I was younger.
And I hope I repay their trust. I hope those that feel they can come to me for an ear to borrow still feel they can. I don't mind it they don't. they aren't imposing - I will always say if the time isn't right.
But I am honoured that they think that highly of me.
I seem to have somehow slipped into the position of "Wise Counsellor", or at least "Willing Listener", for many of my friends. I don't have a problem with this - I am glad they feel able to talk to me and bring their problems to someone for another perspective. I feel honoured that they trust me so much, and I do like helping people. And besides, they're friends, I love my friends, and if somehow I can make any hurting easier to bear, or even help untangle a web, then this is good.
But I wish I knew how I got to this point.
And from here I am going to refer to incidents that might sound familiar to some people. Be sure that a) I shall not divulge names except when that name is me and b) if you think I was talking about you and you're not sure, feel free to ask. I won't be offended.
In my younger days, I was silly. Very very silly. A lot of it had to do with lousy self-respect, and taking note of a lot of wrong ideas and concepts courtesy of the strangeness that was the late 1970s. I thought I had to sleep with a guy if I liked him, I thought to sleep with a guy was a way to get what I wanted (including keeping him), and I thought a lot of those movies and shows where the guy or girl keeps persisting until the other party finally gives in then realises how wonderful they are were realistic. I also knew I wasn't a Brooke Shields or Olivia Newton-John, and therefore thought I was ugly.
So if I liked a guy I'd ...well, I'd pretty much stalk him. Odd phone calls. Drive-pasts at odd hours (just driving past, nothing more). Yes, at least one and maybe two people reading this journal have been subjected to this. I am really sorry now, guys. If I was going out with someone I'd let them treat me like garbage, but at the same time I'd have 2 or 3 others I was juggling to make sure I always had at least one. It was very very rare for me to drop a guy - I'd do anything to keep them. And not being able to take hints, I'd therefore force the guys to drop me in rather harsh ways, because they'd have to be blunt and they'd hate doing that so they'd leave it until things had gotten really bad. I wouldn't ask a guy whom I was dating for the things I liked because I was trying too hard to please him, and I was usually too scared to ask for something I liked in case it freaked him out or annoyed him.
I must admit here that some of that comes from the first boyfriend I had who would insist on doing his things, sulk if I wanted to do mine (visit my friends, see a movie I liked), and when he swore he'd change he didn't (of course). And of course I took it, for quite a while, until I found that the easiest way to dump him was to go out with someone else.
And then some years later I went out with a guy who had absolutely no idea of other people's emotions, preferences or wants. If we saw a play that I didn't like, he couldn't accept that anyone might not enjoy it. If I wanted to visit an old friend he would insist on coming along, then sit there and be miserable because we wanted to talk about old times. When another (female) friend and I wanted to go see amovie we knew her boyfriend and mine wouldn't enjoy, and told the guys this, they snuck after us, came into the movie and then spoilt it for us by being miserable all the way through. And when we broke up (for once I broke things off because I realised we were wrong together, and did it by talking to him and explaining things), he wouldn't accept that, and kept ringing and calling around and trying to do things to get me back.
And that more than anything made me realise how much I must have really bugged people when I did those things.
Also, when I broke with him, I realised it was the first time I was a single woman for about 8 years. I could see the movie I wanted without having to ask anyone else. I could go to a party and talk to anyone I wanted. I could have friends I went out with without it being a relationship.
And so began the time when I was able to put myself in the other person's shoes. It was also the time I realised I was past "playing games" to get someone's attention, and that straight-talking was a good thing. It was when I realised that telling someone who was bugging me "look, I don't like that" was the best way, because then they couldn't say I hadn't told them.
Some time after, when I went through post-natal depression, I was lucky enough to have an excellent counsellor who also taught me a lot of things, like withdrawing and regrouping is a reasonable response, and that all the things I did in my youth are part of who I am and that I have to accept them (and I do now).
I mentioned at the time that I couldn't be a counsellor myself, because I tend to internalise other people's troubles too much and to take them as my own troubles. She explained that it took time and training to learn to listen to other people's troubles objectively, and that of course it's harder when those people are your friends, too.
Later again, I went to training to be a carer for people with AIDS. Several things in that training impressed me. The biggest one, and the one I have taken with me, is that you cannot care for anyone else if you are not caring for yourself. It is fine to say "I can't do this"; it isn't ok to say "yes" and then not deliver. And if you need a break for yourself, then take it. Step back. Regroup. Reassess.
They also didn't try and rope you in for more help as soon as you said "yes" to one thing. I have been involved in so many groups that as soon as you agree to write letters, they want you to fundraise, or run meetings, or ... you know the type. This lot didn't (even people wanting to do more than 1 4-hour shift were only allowed a maximum of four a week). This has helped me to say "no" to others from now on.
In one session, one of the guys doing training left the room for a bit. I passes him outside when I was going to the loo, and asked if he needed help, and he declined. I can only say that somehow something had finally sunk in, as I said "ok" and walked on, realising that he wasn't pushing me away personally, he just needed space. About 10 minutes later our trainer (a lovely guy) said to the rest of us "I'd just like to acknowledge that Rob isn't in the room", and I realised that that was all that was needed. I'd never seen or heard that before - and it was the perfect point between ignoring the missing person, pretending all was well, and making a fuss about them being gone.
Lastly, at one point in the training the trainer explained that he wasn't trying to get us to "get rid of our own burdens", our hang-ups and guilts and problems. He was merely teaching us to carry our emotional baggage a bit easier, to shift it, as it were, from being a pair of suitcases to a backpack. Shifting it thusly leaves our hands free to help others.
So the last few years, I have somehow graduated to being a helper, a counsellor, a dispenser of advice and a willing listener-to-ideas for other people. I will say "yes" if I can, and "no" if I mean it. I have learned that very often just letting someone else talk about their problem makes them come up with their own solution.
More importantly, I have learnt that my job isn't to fix their problems. I might thrown back ideas and things, but quite often all they need is for me to throw back what I think they're saying, and to listen. Really listen. Sometimes they need to be told that it's OK to rant, be angry, to be unhappy, to be annoyed at someone or something.
I wish I'd known that myself when I was younger.
And I hope I repay their trust. I hope those that feel they can come to me for an ear to borrow still feel they can. I don't mind it they don't. they aren't imposing - I will always say if the time isn't right.
But I am honoured that they think that highly of me.
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no subject
Date: 2004-01-10 01:40 am (UTC)I was lucky enough to have stumbled on the same truths by accident and cluelessness, rather than by any kind of design: that is to say, I don't know why people began to trust me, long ago; and when they did I never had any idea what to say, so I didn't say anything and just listened, which turned out by sheerest chance to be the right thing to do, anyway.
I think you sum it all up very well, especially the end two sentences. Strengh, Reynardo.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-10 07:08 am (UTC)I appreciate the help I get, and that's why I like to surround you with flowers when you show up on IRC.
Sadly, my Mom probably can't help you with the rat boy, at least I don't see how that would be in her realm of experience. I mean, the experience of having a stepfather isn't anything that's happened in this family. Unless I'm confusing ratboy with the other offspring.
I think she may have had it easy. All I did was occasionally push the envelope--whenever Mom said "stop. If you do that one more time, you'll be in trouble", I would do whatever it was one more time because I thought it was funny. I didn't, however, think it was funny being taken somewhere private for scolding. I usually thought "wow, you don't have a sense of humour, do you?"
no subject
Date: 2004-01-11 06:20 pm (UTC)All of us make dreadful mistakes when we're going through the 'socialisation' process, learning what is and isn't acceptable/appropriate/healthy behaviour.
It's unpleasant and embarrassing, but it makes us who we are and gives us the wisdom to understand these things and have compassion for those who are still learning...that said, I really appreciate those of us over the glorious hillock of 30 or so years young, who have some maturity and care for others.
And listening....as you say, that was one of the most important things that I have learnt, as a great want-to-give-advicer: just let people talk and if they really want advice they will let you know. Mostly they just want to talk and know that you will listen and care and support....one of the greatest gifts that can be given IMHO.